If you felt like Stephen Campbell was standing on a edge of a significant change in his life and work while listening to episode 31 you were correct. So we caught up with him again to find out what happens when you are the pastor of an Evangelical church and the Evangelical box becomes too small.
Stephen Campbell has been raised, educated and worked in the Evangelical tradition his whole life. He is the Pastor of Redding First Church where he has served for the last 18 years. Along the way, an explosion took place while completing his doctoral work a few years ago. Since then his spiritual journey has taken him outside the box of evangelicalism. So where does that leave a pastor and how does he help lead a congregation when the box doesn't contain his journey any longer?
Music provided by Starving Architect www.starvingarchitect.bandcamp.com
Jer and Kirk respond to a new series by The Liturgist Podcast called Christian where Mike Gungor and Science Mike ask the question, "Are you a Christian?" This has been an important question for Jer and Kirk and marked the beginning of their relationship and the start of the Showing Up podcast. It felt like time to return to it and see where the guys are and what question they are asking now. So... Are you a Christian?
Jer, Kirk and Jack revisit their conversation on non-dualistic thinking (episode 18) with a focus on the problem of good and evil. A problem that exposes the depth of the concept they are wrestling with, and why they are truly out of their depth. It is their hope that this wresting enhances your journey into non-dualistic thinking.
Jer opens with a statement he wrote which becomes the jumping off point: Here is a transcript:
"As I delve deeper into the concept of non-dualistic thinking, I find myself conflicted.
The problem I have with non-dualistic thinking-not the problem with non-dualistic thinking- is that it doesn’t sit neatly or tidily with my desire for certainty. And, I have trouble differentiating between healthy discernment and what is a hollow morality, or vagueness, apathy or passivity. There are certain things in the bible that seem clear...it is written multiple times as a conditionality that if one loves God he must hate evil. Good and evil are is an awkward dissonance to me when looked at through the lens of non-dualistic thinking. Where does discernment come into play? Where does righteousness, truth or morality fit into non-dualistic thinking? Or more poignantly, what are their values within non-dualistic thinking?
I believe Jesus was primarily a non-dualistic thinker, while at the same time he was called The Truth. This implies that from Him could come no falsehood, or confusion, or misgivings. He frequently confronted others with a proposed higher or better way to live. If there was no better or higher, and all that existed was simple different, then any style of living belongs or is morally equivalent and he would wasted his breath and His life.
The very notion of non-dualistic thinking seems to me a self defeating abstraction. If there is no ‘either or’ only ‘both and’, then dualistic thinking is no more relevant or beneficial than non-dualistic thinking and should be encouraged similarly. Unless it is a subjective posture, then, as most things it is more pertinent when beneficial. My difficulty with this concept lies in the tension or balance between living a life that is morally upright and following in the way of Truth or Jesus, while also not putting myself in the judgement seat, which also biblically has clear ramifications."
~ Jeremy Byrne
In this episode the amazing Jeremy Byrne shares his story of breaking up with God ... his I quit moment ... and how it impacted his life, faith and relationships.
How do you tell the differences between authentic faith and cultural expression of it (fads)? Why does my faith look different than my parents? Are my parents correct? What is the future of faith? In this episode Jer leads a subject centered conversation about the nature of fads within faith communities.
Jer and Kirk are joined by Justin Byrne (from episode 6) and Jack Burgess (from episode 12) to explore their experiences with non-dualistic thinking. They work through what it is, how they began to be impacted by it and why it matters. The conversation hits spiritual, relationship and political subjects and they try to understand the nature and value of either/or (dualistic) with both/and (non-dualistic) thinking.
If you want to explore this subject further check out these links to some of the resources they talk about in this episode.
Robcast: Episode 86: Richard Rohr and the Alternative Orthodoxy
The Liturgist Podcast: The Cosmic Christ with Richard Rohr.
On Being: Living in Deep Time with Richard Rohr
Center for Action and Contemplation Daily Meditation on Non-Dualistic Thinking
You can also go to our resource page to find other books you may find helpful at showinguppodcast.com
In this episode Jer and Kirk are joined by artist, creator, thinker and visual facilitator Jack Burgess. They discuss Jack's journey from art school to the Earnst & Young's Accelerated Solution Environment in Cambridge, MA. Here Jack was paid to "draw on the walls." He also developed the business acumen to become a graphic and visual facilitator for business' looking for simple solutions to complex problems. Listen as Jack learns to cut through the noise of conversation to find the high value nuggets with clients and in his own life.
In this episode Jer and Kirk reflect on the stories told during the spiritual journey series. They share how listening to the diversity found in these experiences effected them. They ponder questions like: What does it mean to experience conversion? Are their good journeys and bad journeys? How do you hold other people's experiences? Are there benefit or possible harm in sharing journeys like these?
Jer and I (Kirk) hope you enjoy these reflections and invite you to reflect with us. It would be amazing if you would add your thoughts and comments to ours as we consider what it means to be on spiritual journeys together.
You can leave comments at showinguppodcast.com/episode-11 or on the Showing Up FaceBook page.